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if you've been on brownstoner for a while, you would hear from folks who owned homes in the primo hoods where their renovations are at least $100k per floor.  if you sticking to folks who have done nice renovations for these old homes in these hoods, you're likely going to see such quotes - ie they know the market in these hoods and what people are willing & able to spend.  if you're willing to roll the dice with crew that doesn't normally do projects in these primo hoods, then very good chance of getting it below 300k but then that comes with some unknowns you might not be willing to tolerate.  from your break down above, it doesn't sound pricey - ie $20k to gut 2 bath sounds cheap.  is this 300k including finishing materials (ie tiles, cabs, appliances, etc)?

12:36 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

check with www.renovationcostny.com

12:42 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

I'm feeling the same way!  We are doing a very similar job on our place  and the costs are almost equal to yours.  We're trying to decide if it's all worth it to us (not planning on staying long-term) and what we will get back when we sell.  I know it's not much help, but maybe makes you feel better to know that someone else doing the same work is being given the same estimates.  We are very condifedent in our architect and contractor, which helps steady our nerves when seeing those prices.  
 
The architect we are using clearly knows the ins and outs of filing with Landmarks and the DOB and we've used the contractor (recommended by several friends) on other jobs and are happy to have his crew back in our house based on previous work.  

12:45 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

The pricing you have gotten sound accurate. As mentioned some items actually sound low (20k to fully gut renovate 2 baths).
This all assumes using a highly qualified and experienced general contractor. You can definitely find a smaller outfit to do it for less but it is very true that "you get what you pay for"

1:05 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

I actually thought it sounded very reasonable. A contractor who has done incredible work for me before just told me a gut reno I wanted to do would run $250 to $300 a square foot. Similar work I did 15 years ago was $150 a square foot. I realize this isn't helpful, but I think you may have had dubious advice going in. BTW, architects are well meaning, but contractors are the people to ask about costs.....

1:16 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

I used a firm I have highly recommended on this site before, Ferris Construction who did a high end job for me at a reasonable cost which came in at least 25% below other firms who bid on the job. Ferris is a smaller company but with a very good understanding of large scale jobs.  Andrew Ferris understood my aesthetic, and that I paid great attention to detail and finishes. I used them on several jobs, being so happy with the job they'd done on my gut renovation. It really all depends on who you choose as to the price-the highest price does not necessarily guarantee you the best job.  I also made use of an interior designer as opposed to an architect which may have saved me a few bucks. My recollection is that my contractor filed with DOB. Keep getting bids. Ferris Construction is in Brooklyn-718-765-1715

1:17 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Kitchen, bathrooms and electric estimates seem quite reasonable.

1:42 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Wow. My architect gave me a low estimate. My contractors were all between 40k-120k more. Most items seem about average in price. The new kitchen seems a bit on the high side. Are you buying any of the appliances, cabinets, &c. yourself?

1:53 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

are there a ton of nice original details to preserve, restore, etc?  if not, you have more choices and could be cheaper cost.  if you do, then odds are it might even cost more as there are fewer qualified skilled crews and they often charge more.  If it was a modern renov, there are lots more crews who can do killer job putting up sheet rock, installing lighting, hanging cabs, etc. hence pricing is lower.

2:01 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Oh, dear. This is just getting worse and worse.
Maybe I should clarify that this is not a gut? We are redoing 2 bathrooms and a kitchen, electrical, and putting in HVAC. Period. Does that change anything? If not, we need to start thinking creatively because our budget is half this. Perhaps we can hire subs directly (I work from home so could supervise) or source our own materials? Solutions to this mess would be much appreciated.

2:33 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

By the way, my former estimates for the work, dredged up from this site and confirmed by all of the real estate professionals I talked to were the following:
roof:                 7k,
electrical:         40k,
fancy kitchen:  60k
2 bathrooms:    20k
architect:           17k
hvac:  40k
These numbers are in line with what I put above, I realize, but they total 174k. What I don't understand is how, when bundled together into one job, this work can cost nearly double.

2:43 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Get more bids.

3:06 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Dave is right, get more bids.  I know of people gut renovating small 2 family (2400 sq ft) houses for 180k (mid tier materials).

3:23 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

There is often a significant difference between what you want to believe and ultimately - reality.

For instance if we knew what teenagers were like, we wouldn't have children. So infants were specifically genetically designed to be cute.

The numbers you quote seem middle of the road, so you will want to reduce the scope of the work performed.

As a contractor myself, I would be able to probably cut the price to 200K, but I would have to add a significant amount of sweat equity, and deal with delays and the probable errors.

Without years of experience, and long time relationships with subs, you wouldn't save much or anything as a newbie.

4:06 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Can't comment on the othe trades but even without seeing the project, $40k sounds about right for the HVAC system you described (SpacePak or Unico).But hey, keep looking. You can ALWAYS find someone to do the job cheaper. Just remember, you pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys.

4:08 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

Some of these costs sound reasonable (the bathrooms, for instance), some sound high to me (the kitchen, definitely -- if you're willing to go with non-custom cabinets sucah as Park Slope Kitchens offers, and good-but-not-crazy-expensive appliances, you can probably get a very nice kitchen for half that estimate). The roof sounds high -- unless there is something structural or weird going on, it should be around $8K -- or does it include the dunnage? If so, add $5K. I think your soft costs sound high, considering that you don't list a structural engineer, though you will probably have an HVAC engineer, yes?
When we got our bids for a semi-gut 4-story renovation, my architect went over each bid with us in detail. We decided on the contractor we wanted, went back to that contractor and we (architect + us) negotiated the bid downward. A little off here, off there, modify this, etc.
If you want to see what a 4-story semi-gut looks like for around $400K (not including the new roof and solar panels), contact me at housereno at earthlink dot net. Our architect was wonderful all the way through, and our contractor was good.

5:20 PM 02/03/2012 | 0 Votes

We are GC we have done a lot of similar projects like yours, please give us a call at 917 412 3900 for an estimate. thx

7:52 PM 02/04/2012 | 0 Votes

 

You should definately get addtional quotes.  When we interviewed contractors, their prices ranged fivefold (I kid not).  Just because someone costs less doesn't mean they're worse.  (And vice-versa.)  We found that it's more important to get someone moderately priced that has the same outlook and vision as ourselves, so that we can trust them to make good judgement calls in the absence of an architect.
And you sound like you know what you want, so an architect might be something you can skip (if you get a GC that knows brownstones well).  Architects will specify to-the-nail what needs to be done, but if you know what you like and get a smart contractor that understands the nuts-and-bolts of how to physically acheive your vision, an architect won't add much.  And your permits should only cost a few hundred dollars, an expeditor should only be a few thousand.  So your total soft costs shouldn't be more than $5-10k.  
You can also probably save a good $40-50k on your kitchen if you go with IKEA cabinets and mid-range luxury applainces (GE Cafe, Bosch, etc).  We've done IKEA kitchens twice; they have a 25 year warranty and low-priced stone countertops with free countertop installation).  There are even third party custom cabinet fronts if you don't like the IKEA look.  
Between those two things alone, that's $100k right there you can save, regardless of your contractor.
And if you're handy and want to learn, ask your contractor if you can help out and do some of the work yourself.  Our contractor is fully aware that we are not Moneybag McRichpants and was always happy to help us stay on budget however possible. 

 

11:36 PM 02/04/2012 | 1 Votes

Electrical sounds right on target/low (we paid $15k for total upgrade on three floors plus basement). Bath prices sound great. Kitchen sounds exactly right on -- for a high-quality renovation.
I do have a suggestion for cutting costs, but I don't know if it's one you want to hear. If you keep all the fixtures exactly where they are in the baths and kitchens, you don't need to file, so you don't need an architect. (Your electrical company will file separately without the architect.)
OTOH, having done several renovations ourselves and acting as our own contractor, I do see the value of having an architect. Ideally, they will save you from design mistakes, ensure everything fits together in the best possible way, and have access to high quality workmanship and contractors you would most likely not be able to bring in on your own.

12:50 PM 02/05/2012 | 0 Votes

I've seen some nice kitchens with Ikea and Home Depot cabinets. Your space and how the cabinets will fit into it is probably the main concern when deciding on custom vs. off the shelf. Custom can maximize efficient use of a tricky space and avoid unsightly soffits. But depending on the space, you may not need custom.

1:57 PM 02/05/2012 | 0 Votes

Thanks, everyone for your helpful comments. I think we have a clearer sense now on where we personally need to scale back--anybody have experience with Craftmade cabinets? They're pretty!--and what we need to require from our architect, in terms of his getting out of the way. I'm sure I'll be on here a lot in the next 6 months!

10:03 AM 02/06/2012 | 0 Votes

We used Kraftmaid cabinets through Home depot when we redid our kitchen about 5 years ago and were happy with them.

2:24 PM 02/06/2012 | 0 Votes

And just to add one thing about kitchen cabinets--custom vs. stock does not have to be either-or. You can do mostly stock, and then just get your contractor or a cabinetmaker to "fill in" any odd spaces that can't fit a stock piece well. We're doing that now, using mostly Ikea and then having our contractor build various open shelving bits, and it's looking great.

3:18 PM 02/06/2012 | 0 Votes

Also, FWIW, I just noticed you mentioned windows. Windows can be very expensive. They are also a must-have item if they are warped and don't close correctly. Alternatively, you can cover them with plastic for the winter. We were quoted $8,000 for 15 aluminum replacement windows or $30,000 for 15 wood Marvin windows installed brick to brick (price includes all labor and parts). If you are fortunate enough to have the original windows, by all means keep them and restore them. Properly maintained with storm windows, they will function better and last longer than replacements.

6:03 PM 02/06/2012 | 0 Votes

Re the fancy tile, sometimes a bath can look quite classic and elegant with less expensive tile. For example, plain white subway tile and penny rounds can be less expensive than, say, colored glass tile or marble hex. You can also inexpensively introduce a note of color with two lines of contrast tile on an otherwise plain field.

6:11 PM 02/06/2012 | 0 Votes